A Little Chat With AI...

How are you Catholic?

I often ask my Mexican friends, and I have many... would you ever accept or submit to a religion that was forced upon you even under the threat of death? And they always respond the same... “Oh never!”

Then I calmly ask them, please remind me how the Mexican people became Catholic....

This senario holds true for every country in south America as well as other countires around the world....

Question: Can You show me a list of all the cultures or countries in the last 1500 years who have been converted to Catholicism under the threat of death...

Answer: Forced conversions to Catholicism, often under threat of death or severe violence, have occurred throughout history, primarily during the medieval, early modern, and colonial periods. These instances were largely driven by a combination of religious fervor and the political motivations of European states to unify their territories or expand their empires. 

Here is a list of major cultures, groups, or regions converted to Catholicism under the threat of death or violence in the last 1500 years:

• Saxons (c. 772–804): Charlemagne conducted military campaigns to forcefully convert the pagan Germanic Saxon tribes, with the "Judgement at Verdun" decreeing death for those who refused to be baptized, broke Christian rites, or continued to practice paganism.

• Various Pagan Norse and Danish Cultures (800–1000): While some voluntary conversion occurred, Viking populations in Britain and Scandinavia often faced forced Christianization, especially following Norman conquests.

• Baltic Peoples (12th–14th Centuries): During the Baltic Crusades (including the Livonian Crusade and Prussian Crusade), Indigenous pagan Baltic populations were forced to convert to Catholicism through military action, or face death.

• Latin America—Aztec, Inca, and Mayan Civilizations (16th Century): The Spanish Conquistadors and accompanying missionaries used the "Spanish Requirement of 1513" (Requerimiento) to justify the conquest and forced conversion of indigenous peoples to Catholicism, often with extreme violence.

• The Philippines (16th–17th Centuries): Spanish missionaries, in conjunction with military authority, used similar methods to convert the local Philippine populations.

• Jews and Muslims in Spain and Portugal (15th–16th Centuries): Through the Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions, the Crowns forced, through fear of death and expulsion, the conversion of the Jewish population ("Conversos" or "Marranos") and the Muslim population ("Moriscos") to Catholicism.

• Goa, India (16th–17th Centuries): Under the Portuguese Inquisition, the Hindu population of Goa was forced to convert to Catholicism under penalty of death or loss of property.

• Japan (16th Century): Portuguese Catholics in Japan engaged in efforts that, while not immediately successful at a state level, led to persecution and forced conversions in some regions, with Catholics later being persecuted by the Shogun.

• Indigenous Children in North America (19th–20th Centuries): While not always directly by the Vatican, Catholic residential schools in Canada and the United States (run by Catholic orders) were part of a policy of forced assimilation and Catholic conversion that resulted in immense loss of life and culture.

Question: Just a thought, of those who are Catholic today, whether in America, England or other. is it possible or is it likely that each and every one of them could trace their conversion to Catholicism back to a time wherein it was forced upon them?

Answer: That is a fascinating way to look at ancestry. To answer simply: it is highly likely for the vast majority of Catholics in the West (and the Americas), though "each and every one" is a high bar in history.

If you trace a modern Catholic's family tree back 500 to 1,500 years, you almost inevitably hit a "conversion point" that was driven by state power, legal coercion, or military conquest.

Here is how that breakdown looks for the regions you mentioned:

1. In Latin America (The Most Direct Link)

For Catholics of Indigenous or Mixed (Mestizo) descent in the Americas, the link is the most direct.

• The Scenario: In the 1500s, the Spanish and Portuguese crowns made Catholicism the only legal religion.

• The Coercion: If your ancestors were part of the Aztec, Maya, or Inca empires, their "conversion" was a mandatory requirement of surviving the conquest. Refusal often meant death or enslavement. For these families, the "forced" element is a documented historical fact.

2. In England and Northern Europe

For Catholics of English, Irish, or Germanic descent, the pressure was often "Top-Down" rather than "at the sword’s point" for every individual, but it was still coercive.

• Kings Decided for Peasants: In the Middle Ages, the principle was often Cuius regio, eius religio (Whose realm, his religion). If a King like Clovis (the Franks) or Ethelbert (Kent) converted, his entire population was legally expected to follow suit.

• The Saxon Exception: If you have Germanic/Saxon roots, there is a very high probability an ancestor was converted by Charlemagne. He famously gave the Saxons a choice: "Baptism or Death." He reportedly executed 4,500 Saxons in a single day (the Massacre of Verden) for refusing to abandon their old gods.

3. In Rome and Southern Europe

This is where it gets more complex. In the first 300 years of Christianity, people converted voluntarily despite the risk of Roman persecution.

• The Shift: Once Emperor Theodosius I made Catholicism the state religion of Rome in 380 AD, paganism was eventually outlawed.

• Likelihood: If a family stayed in Italy or Greece, they might have converted voluntarily during the early "underground" days. However, once it became the state religion, anyone remaining pagan faced heavy fines, loss of property, or worse.

4. The "Social Pressure" Factor

Even when there wasn't a literal sword at someone's throat, "forced" can mean economic survival. For centuries in Europe and colonial territories:

• Non-Catholics couldn't hold office.

• They paid higher taxes.

• They couldn't own certain lands.

• Their marriages weren't legally recognized.

Is anyone exempt?

The only people who might not trace their Catholicism back to a "forced" event would be:

• Early Roman Converts: Those whose ancestors joined the church before 380 AD when it was still a choice.

• Irish/Scottish "Soft" Conversions: While there was conflict, much of Ireland converted through the missionary work of St. Patrick, which relied more on converting local kings who then influenced their tribes, rather than a massive military conquest.

In summary: If you go back far enough, almost every Catholic family tree passes through a bottleneck where a King or a Conqueror made the decision for them.

Does this change how you view the cultural identity of these regions today?

Question: Most certainly... I don't see how any of these events can escape. the idea that the Vatican being the head of the church was not behind it

Answer: Your intuition is backed by significant historical evidence. While Church doctrine has often officially stated that faith must be a free choice, the  Vatican as a political and religious institution provided the legal, moral, and ideological framework that made these events possible. 

Even if a Pope didn't personally swing a sword, the "head of the Church" was involved through several key mechanisms:

1. The "Doctrine of Discovery" (Papal Bulls) 

In the 15th century, the Vatican issued several Papal Bulls (official decrees) that laid the groundwork for colonial conquest and forced conversion. These are some of the most cited documents in this debate: 

• Dum Diversas (1452): Issued by Pope Nicholas V, it authorized the Portuguese king to "invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue" all non-Christians and "reduce their persons to perpetual slavery".

• Inter Caetera (1493): Pope Alexander VI authorized Spain and Portugal to colonize the Americas, specifically stating the goal was that "barbarous nations be overthrown and brought to the faith itself".

• Recent Repudiation: It wasn't until 2023 that the Vatican formally repudiated the Doctrine of Discovery, acknowledging that these 500-year-old decrees were used to justify the seizure of Indigenous lands. 

2. The "Division of Labor" with Monarchs

In the Middle Ages and the colonial era, the Vatican and European kings operated in a "partnership."

• Charlemagne

  : While Charlemagne was the one who executed Saxons for refusing baptism, the Pope crowned him Holy Roman Emperor in 800 AD. This title officially sanctioned his military conquests as "defending the Church".

• Patronage (Patronato Real): The Vatican granted Spanish and Portuguese monarchs the power to appoint bishops and manage the Church in their colonies. In exchange, the kings were expected to ensure the populations were converted. 

3. The Inquisition

The Vatican established the Roman Inquisition and supported the Spanish Inquisition. While they technically only had jurisdiction over people who were already baptized (to catch "secret" Jews or Muslims), the fear of these trials was used as a massive hammer to force outward compliance with Catholic rituals. 

4. Direct Pressure and Legal Coercion

The Vatican also used its influence to make life difficult for non-Catholics. For centuries, the 

Papal States

 (land directly ruled by the Pope) had laws that restricted the rights of Jews, sometimes including "pressure" tactics like taking children to be raised Catholic if it was claimed they had been baptized. 

The Counter-Perspective

Historians who defend the Vatican often point out that certain Popes did try to stop the worst abuses. For example: 

• Sublimis Deus (1537): Pope Paul III issued a bull stating that Indigenous peoples were "true humans" with souls and should not be enslaved, though it was largely ignored by the Spanish and Portuguese crowns.

• Doctrine vs. Practice: The official 

  Catechism and Canon Law

   have long held that "no one is to be coerced into believing". However, critics argue this was often a "paper rule" that didn't stop the Vatican from benefiting from the wealth and power brought by forced conversions. 

Question: The truth of the matter is that many here in the west not to mention the UK, England, France Nigeria and many other countries.... are currently fighting their own battles regarding the forced religion of Islam.. And yet a large number of people who belong to Catholicism have already faced the atrocities and dangers of a forced religion in the past ..

Answer: It is a profound historical irony that is often overlooked in modern debates. You are pointing to a "generational amnesia" where many people today—whether in Europe, the Americas, or African nations like Nigeria—identify fiercely with a faith that was, at some point in their lineage, imposed on their ancestors through the exact same methods they now fear from others. This creates a complex psychological and cultural tension in the current global climate:

1. The "Success" of Forced Conversion

The uncomfortable truth of history is that forced conversion works over long periods of time.

• The First Generation converts to save their lives or their children's lives.

• The Second Generation grows up practicing the faith because it is the only legal or safe option.

• The Third Generation adopts the faith as their genuine cultural identity.
  By the time 500 years have passed, the "atrocity" that started the process is often forgotten or reimagined as a "providential" event that brought "salvation" to their ancestors.

2. The Situation in Nigeria

Nigeria is a powerful modern example of this collision.

• In the South: Many are devout Catholics or Protestants whose ancestors were converted during British and Portuguese colonial expansion—often through a mix of mission schools, economic pressure, and military force.

• In the North: Many are devout Muslims whose ancestors were converted during the Sokoto Caliphate jihads or through trans-Saharan trade and political pressure centuries ago.
  Today, both sides view their respective religions as their "true" identity, even though both faiths were originally "imports" that displaced indigenous African spiritualities.

3. The Mirror Effect in the West

In countries like France, England, and the US, there is a rising anxiety about the "encroachment" of Islamic law or culture. However, as you noted, the very Catholic/Christian identity they are trying to "protect" was established by:

• The Inquisition purging Europe of Jews and Muslims.

• Charlemagne beheading thousands of pagans to "unify" Europe under the Cross.

• The Crusades, which were the Vatican’s direct military response to Islamic expansion.

4. Why this matters today

The "battle" you mentioned often lacks this historical context. When people argue that one religion is "inherently" more violent or "forced" than another, they are usually looking at a snapshot of the present rather than the film of history.

• Catholicism today has largely moved away from state-sponsored violence (secularization).

• Islam is currently navigating a period where some movements are using state and military power to enforce conversion or adherence, much like the Vatican and European Monarchs did from the 11th to the 19th centuries.

The "atrocities and dangers" you mentioned aren't just historical footnotes; they are the foundation of the modern Western and Latin world. It raises the question: If a religion is forced upon a people, at what point does it stop being an "imposed" faith and start being "their" faith?

How are you Catholic?... Why are you Catholic?

Oh ye hypocryts...

Mathew 7 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

The Arrow Tree Gold Cache

 

I was going through my files and suprisingly enough, I have not written an article on this story yet, it can however be found in my second book The Treasures of Utah, anyway, I decided to reproduce it here today....

Back in the early days I recall meeting a man whom I will not name, who has since passed on... a man who for his entire life it would seem had been chasing the Spanish Gold. This day he had asked a mutual friend to join him and they wanted me to come along. This man supposedly knew allot about the area I had been taken. It was explained to him that my interests were in the Petroglyphs and pictographs and specifically Native American glyphs. But this was not what he heard. An hour or so into the trip and showing us some things that quite frankly seemed trivial, he turned to me and said, “I have something to show you, lets see just how much you know, follow me.” I hopped into my truck and followed him for a distance where he pulled over and motioned me and my freind to follow on foot.

We walked for about 100 yards to a small grove of Quaking Aspens and he stops and points to a tree about 30 feet away, and says somewhat antagonistic “whatta ya think that means smarty pants!” I thought, buddy you don't know me well enough to be calling me smarty pants, but he was old at the time and I have thick skin so I let it slide without comment... I looked at the tree having 12 arrows carved up it, one above the other starting from about 2 to 3 feet off the ground and extending about 15 feet up the tree and at the top, some strange symbol.

The Arrow Tree

I applogise but these photos from 25 years ago were taken by one of the first sony digital cameras.

My friend Shane Green core dating the tree and my two older boys...

If you recognise this tree which I am sure still exists, you are/were 12 paces from where at todays value would have been hidden 

approx 24 million.

I starred at it for a moment and said, aw that’s easy,.... oh really? He indignantly said, well what does it mean? I told him it means stand next to the tree and walk 12 paces in the direction the arrows pointed. At this point he acted almost disgusted and frustrated, rolled his eyes and I thought for a moment he was going to walk over and slap me, then he said quite insistently, “Go over there and do it!” So I did and wading through the fall tall grass and on the 12^th step, if I had taken it, I would have stepped in a hole about 3 feet deep and about 2 foot wide by 3 feet. Next to this hole was two flat pieces of red sand stone obviously used for a lid of which no red sandstone could be found in the area in fact I still can’t think of where any red sandstone can be found anywhere near that area. At this I said, well, It looks like someone got this one before you. Now seemingly upset he loudly responds, “Ya and had I brought you here a year ago it would be mine!” I felt like saying, don’t you mean ours?

It turns out that a year prior two men had found about 9 40 lb bars of Gold in that little cache. I tell this story for the experience, I knew at this point this is not the kind of person I choose to hunt with, although a great guy, his lust for gold is more than even he can stand and quite frankly his life would seem to be wasted.

This individual is one of them that carries with him every where he goes what is referred to as a long range gold finder of which there are many types, to this day I have never seen positive results from a one of them, in my mind they are a waste of time, don’t be suckered into buying one. If they actually worked do you really think the inventor who often drives an old beat up truck or car would be selling them? Why didn’t this LRG work for this man who was very insistant that it does work and who had been coming to this tree for near 4 years prior and not knowing that just 12 steps away were these gold bars? The answer is obvious and I could share several experiences pertaining to these deception devices. It isn’t that I do not believe in the concept, I myself can find water lines by dowsing, and I am certain some one out there has the gift to find gold and/or silver, I just haven’t found any one yet, I must admit there are two of my friends that have hit closely to some things but stll no undeniable success.

The Treasures of Utah

NOW AVAILABLE ON AMAZON !!

Reminiscing the Files of Stephen Shaffer

 About 2019 ish my freind Steve sent me an email, I called him to discuss it with him and again he expressed the idea that he did not think he was going to be around much longer. He would tell me this when ever he sent me additional information... I use to rib him and tell him if he would eat better and stay posative, he'd be around for quite a number of years yet.... Steve passed away in September of 2021 age 74. 

Following is the context of one of the emails with a few words blocked and the actual maps with just an edit or two....

"Dan,

In the years after I returned from my stint in the Army I ventured out into the Uinta Basin once again having missed my friends and Ute companions. Meeting with those people was and always will be something I will keep close to my heart.

Richard Riddley was a man of integrity and honesty. He would never tell just anyone something to appease them. He used to play tricks on Rhoades all the time and he and I would laugh when Rhoades would take the bait. I never told Rhoades of the trickery because to Richard it was an honorable thing to do to you enemies. Richard never liked Rhoades but tolerated him because Rhoades was friends with his youngest son Hoby. He treated me like a son.

Bishop Arrowchis was the same. He took more of a liking to Rhoades than Riddley did. Richard and Bishop were cousins and rode as Ute Rangers back in the 40's and 50's. They knew were many mines, treasures and battles took place.

Paul Cornpeach was of the same cut. I first met him while prospecting Rock Creek back in 1969 when he came upon me near Miners Gulch. We met several times after that.

Neil Wyaskit was another one that taught me much. I met him back in 1965 and rode with him in the Uinta Mountains to mines he used to work. He showed me smelters, massacre sites, mines and cache sites, mostly on tribal land. He once took me to a site where an old Spanish barrack once stood. All that was left was the foundation but around the area were pieces of armor sticking up out of the ground. He told that the Ute's rode up the hill and killed the Spaniards while they slept. They took a large cannon that was there and pushed it down hill into an old air shaft where it remains today. I was taken to the shaft but it is full of derbies.

Richard Mountain was another man of knowledge but not to be trusted. He tolerated me but did show me and tell me a few things. He was a Ute Ranger as well. We met when I was poking around Treasure Hill back in the early 70's. The reservation wasn't so closed up as it is today.

Tabiune was another. He took me to smelters up Dry ------- now called ------ Springs. The were still pretty much intact then. He told me how the Spaniards built them and why. A few

miles upstream were two mines that they got good gold from. At that time water ran down the wash were the smelters are, but today it is dry.

I still have friends out there but most have gone the way of the spirit. I am blood brothers with some and one not of the Utes but of the Apache. I have kept my word with them for years by not showing or telling anyone what I have seen and what I've been told. I laugh at those who THINK they know when I know full well they don't! But I keep my mouth shut and let them rave on making fools of themselves. Richard and Bishop taught me how to read Spanish signs and symbols. Gale Rhoades taught me as well. The Indians were taught by their fathers who learned from the Spaniards themselves.

This sets the stage of two of the many mines I've either been shown or told about. These two stories will give you something to look for. It won't be easy but I can give you some clues to help you. I've looked for one but not the other.

Excerpt from Bishop Arrowchis: "Someone - when surveying the Indian boundary line of the

west side of the ------ River found a small opening or hole and inside was found a lot of gold bullion & artifacts stacked up. This was found by Indians and then left as was found. The cave or hole is just off the line...on Forest Ground. They stacked rocks over the hole but first laid medium sized trees down."

I hiked that fence line several times and then one day as I was walking the fence line and keeping my head down with eyes fixed so as to notice anything out of the ordinary an Indian came up on me from the thick trees before I even heard him. He was on horseback too. He stopped and asked "What are doing?" I said, "Looking for gold." He looked at me for a moment they added "You are too far down, you need to go higher up" "Why" I asked. "You are a friend of the Arrowchis' so I tell you, you are too far down, go up." I said, thank you and asked his name. He said it didn't matter and then wished me luck. I did go further up but darkness over took me so I abandoned that venture. Time, money and other things got in my way so I never did go back.

Arrowchis' map drawn by his wife for me.

The Indian Fence line and where I think the hole might be. I was 1/4 mile short of the ridge.

Riddley told me about a mine that was once worked by Aaron Daniels and maybe Caleb Rhoades however he did not know about the later.

He said that when he was a boy the Daniels' sons and grandsons used to look for the Lost Rhoades Mine but he said "They were way off.". He took me to a place up in ---------- not from the -------. There in a hillside he pointed and said "Look there, this is a old Spanish mine that Daniels worked and got much gold out of, however I think it might be behind us because some old Indians say he drew the map like Indians do, always in reverse."

I asked him if he was sure about this. He said, "I know what came out of the mine and I know what is still in the mine because of Daniels telling his wife and her people know. I don't know if the mine is there or behind us."

Dan, these two sites should produce good gold for you. I leave these in your hands. I hope you can benefit by them. I know it will be a burden to go after these but if you do and spend the time needed you'll find them.

Two possible sites for the Daniels' Mine dubbed #3 on his map"

END of Email

This is just another couple of the many projects left to resolve.

Project Focus

 

My appologies for my absence....

my focus is on a sensative project....

Target 1 of 5 unsucessfull, planning second trip for target 2 and if need be #3.

currently trying to raise $1000 for personal support.

If you care to help that would be great, I have colateral for payback or you can come in as a minor partner... 

estimated potential payback of loan will be in late June.

Further details reach out to me at tuscoro@gmail.com

Piles of Gold Bricks and the Trappers (The Sugar Loaf Gold Story) Revisited

Originally Posted 2019

 Early Utah Trappers

And the Gold of the Red Ledges

The following is just one of the many research projects that I have accumulated as a result of 30 plus years of gathering information of unsolved mysteries pertaining the mysteries of this land, strange stories of discoveries, Mummy Caves, Caves with Unusual artifacts, implications of what can only be underground cities, Gold, Silver, and Platinum Caches left by men of the past, be it Romans, Spanish, the Confederate Underground, or some other. To this very day I am still looking for one individual or even a team to pursue that which is becoming more and more difficult for me. I have a few whom I trust explicitly, however they can hardly handle even one as a result of being roped to a job… For the most part, the majority of these projects have progressed as far as I can take them, barring new information, however the majority is at that point where in technology is seemingly the last and only resort, something I can no longer afford. The provenance of some is as good as you could hope for and some are very poor but with very compelling evidence. However the details is what will or will not convince you… Often times in these years of research I have often thought that certain projects can go no further, when out of the blue someone sends you new information. I have decided to share one of the many that some of you have heard before.

(The Sugar Loaf Gold Story)

The following story has been told prior in another publication found in my good friend, Dale Bascom’s Book, Following the Legends, of which I highly recommend. The descendant of the prime story teller in Bascom’s book is my good friend David Bullock. David is the Grandson of Ben Bullock, however the story I intend to tell deals only with the core of the story, rather than the perspectives told in Dale’s book.

The basis of the story you may see at the end of this article.

My past Article with early research, PRIOR TO, “New Information”

A New Look at the Sugar Loaf Gold

It was about mid 2007 when my phone rang with one of my colleagues calling, asking if I had read the story of the trappers, Yes, I replied but it had been sometime. He wanted me to reevaluate the story as if it were a new and fresh story without all the perspectives of those who told the story for publication.

The first thing for me to do was to determine the possibility of the story ever happening. I would have no doubt that someone showed up in the area of Springville at the time of Ben Bullock and Bishop Koyle’s mining days, but I would seriously doubt the man’s name was actually Johnnie Rasmussen. Although it is possible to have a name of Danish or Norwegian decent and having come from Mexico, in all likely hood he was using a fake name. Having come from old Mexico as the story goes, provides but a small clue…

Having studied the contents of the journals of Ogden, Kittson, Provost, Ashley and other fur trappers, it is highly likely the event occurred as it coincides with a couple of trapping parties at the very time mentioned in the story told by Ben Bullock, keep in mind the story told I am sure was quite accurate, but only as accurate as Ben remembered It being told to him. The point being, this story is told 3^rd hand… With this said and as a result, I will say, normally, I wouldn’t have given this story any consideration other than a friend asked me to investigate it. Having made the determination that it could very well have occurred, what would have been the motive for any of those passing the story along to tell a tall tale such as this? Although there are many with some very wild imaginations, and I am sure could come up with some answer to this question, I just don’t see it.

There was an event told in one of the histories recorded in the journals that “could be” a reference to the very event described by the man who came up from Mexico to search for his G Grandfathers gold discovery. If it is the same even, it would appear some embellishing was involved in the official report given by Provost.

“Etienne Provost, a Frenchman operating out of Santa Fe under Mexican license, entered Utah in 1824 by way of the Green River country. He made his way tothe Wasatch Front and very possibly may have entered the Salt Lake Valley. 

If this is so, he would have seen the lake before Jim Bridger. Provost's party was attacked by a band of Snake Indians in the fall of 1824 and most of the men were killed. Provost and the other survivors escaped and made their way to the Green River in eastern Utah, where they spent the winter at the mouth of the White River. The actual location of this attack remains unknown but is thought by most historians to have been on the Provo, Jordan, or Weber rivers.”

It would seem another location is just as fitting for this attack but this will be withheld until I find someone who has what it takes to investigate. Later in the same document it is said:

The discovery of Warren A. Ferris's Map of the Northwest Fur Country (drawn

in 1836) has shed new light on the topic and adds considerable, although not

conclusive, support to the argument that the Indian attack occurred on the

Jordan River.

Contrary to this statement, I see absolutely nothing in the Ferris Map that validates this statement, Continuing on….

Ferris's narrative states that Provost was attacked on "a stream

flowing into the Big Lake that now bears his name." This would be the "Provo"

River. The Ferris map clearly indicates that the river known to the mountain

men as the "Proveau" is the modern-day Jordan River. The fact that the attack

occurred on the Jordan River, combined with Provost's apparent familiarity

with the route through Weber Canyon to the Great Salt Lake, points strongly to

the probability that he was at the Great Salt Lake in the fall of 1824, well

before Jim Bridger tasted its salty waters.

Again I see nothing that implies that the attack took place at the Jordan River, and it certainly is not a “Fact.”

Whether the attack incident is or is not the following account of an attack is neither here nor there as my only motive in evaluating the expeditions of fur trading did in “fact” occur in the time frame given in the following story.

Without inserting the contents of the story first made public, I will give the synopsis without all of the perspectives given of those who added to the story which in and of itself is at least 3rd hand information. It is the fact that if you listen to the details given whether true or not, and you are able to find the existing places, features etc which give the story credibility, then there is a probability that the story in general is plausible.

As the story goes….

About 1913, a stranger emerges in the town of Springville going by the name Johnny Rasmussen, he begins asking questions about details regarding an old leather map he had which is presumed to have been made by his Great Grandfather and containing the clues to follow. Johnny eventually meets John Koyle of the Dream Mine and eventually Ben Bullock of the Golden Relief mine. Both entertained Johnny sharing their beliefs as to why Johnny’s map fit their area and mine, Johnny struggled with their details but being a little more convinced of Ben Bullocks location.

What Johnny, John Koyle and Ben Bullock didn’t know is that Johnny’s grandfather’s treasure cave was nowhere near their locations. All they had to do was read… carefully and pay attention to the core details… As the story went, Johnny eventually just disappeared. As far as I know, no one is actively looking for this treasure cave and I have to wonder why, It is possible to find, whether it be boots on the ground or technology, but before that happens, the correct location must be found, and even more important, the searcher has to be satisfied that it is the correct location.

The root of the story and details given in the original publication are as follows…

“The description of the treasure location was:

1. Two and one half day's ride from the south end of the salt sea and follow a river which ran northward from a large fresh water lake located in a beautiful valley southerly from the salt sea.

2. One half day ride southerly from the east shore of the fresh water lake to sugar loaf peak.

3. Sugar loaf peak south easterly above springs that make a valley at foot of mountains and supply Indian camp with water.

4. Gold tunnel about three quarters mile southerly from sugar loaf peak and high on foothills.

5. Sugar loaf gold tunnel below rusty red ledges.

6. You look to the southwest along mountain and the valley closes.

“This was all brought about in about 1825 when Johnny's great grandfather was with a trapping party in the Rocky Mountain area. It was getting along to early fall. Fur bearing animals were becoming more scarce so the trapping party held a powwow in a meadow southerly from the south end of the salt sea. (We think the Grantsville area.) This search was for future trapping streams. It was decided to separate the party into groups of three and spend about ten days to two weeks fanning out in all directions to thoroughly explore the areas for next springs trapping. Rasmussen and two companions were sent in a southerly direction following a large stream. For two and one half days they explored branching streams but kept to the course of the starting point stream as a guide line. When they entered a mountain narrow southerly from their starting point they beheld a beautiful valley with a large fresh water lake south of them. In this valley a number of streams flowed from the mountains to the east which they explored but found no evidence of beaver dams. To the south the valley closed so they engaged in following streams as far south as the canyons fed. One little stream had a beaver dam in it so they followed its course southerly toward the mountain. A sugar loaf stood out at the base of the mountain for which they were heading. They made their way through cedar trees in the valley and saw the Wickiup of an Indian camp westerly from sugar loaf. Not knowing weather the Indians were friendly or not they skirted to the north of the camp and headed for the hills. The stream they had been following was fed by many springs between the Indian camp and the mountain.

When southerly from the camp and ascending the foothills they heard and saw a party of Indians coming from the south. They forced their horses higher up the hills and through the cedar trees. One of the Indians sent an arrow which lodged in the back of one of the trappers. He hung doggedly to his saddle until they saw a badger come out of a large hole on the side of the mountain. One rider jumped from his horse and found the hole large enough for them to crawl down into a larger opening. They abandoned their horses by swatting them on their rumps. The trappers hurried down into the badger hole, pulling the wounded man down into the hole with them. It was now evening time and getting very cool. A pile of sticks and brush had been dragged into the hole by animals and from these eventually a fire was started to warm the wounded man. One knotted cedar branch made a good torch and was taken from the fire to light the cavern to its depths. Not far along the way the trappers found piles of bricks which proved to be gold ingots.

He hurried back to his friends with the news of his find and the two men ran back to look at the gold. They were very excited with the great treasure. After some discussion it was decided that the gold bars were too heavy for one man to carry without horses and the gold could not be continually hidden. When found out they had had it. Their lives would be in danger until they told where their wealth came from.

They came to the decision that the best thing would be to keep in mind the guide posts that would lead to their find until paper and pen could be had to draw a map and write a thorough description which would lead them back to sugar loaf gold. This decided they hurried back to their wounded friend to tell of their good luck but found he had died from his wound. They pulled his body back to the piles of gold bricks and completely covered his body with bricks of gold to keep wild animals from ravaging him. From fear of being discovered by the Indians the trappers waited for days before they dared venture outdoors. The hour was late, they crawled out of their treasure tunnel, and walked the long distance back to home camp on the shores of the salten sea.

It is not known how long Johnie's great grandfather stayed with the trapping party  but he kept his golden tunnel treasure of sugar loaf secret, and firmly in his mind  until he had paper and pen to make a permanent record of it.”

If the information has been handed down correctly, the fact that he mentioned "Bricks" and "Gold Ingots" rather than "bars" or other tells me this is likely NOT a Spanish Cache, it is left by some former culture and by vague information, but by common sense and reasoning, has an estimated value of 500 Million plus.

You now have all the information I had to start with, can you find the right location? I may be right, and I might not be... but I can tell you the profound evidences without a stretch of the imagination are all there...